I (heart) Planned Parenthood
I got this sticker today. I was given it. I’m not sure I ever imagined having one. I’m not sure what to do with it. And then I realized what I was going to do with it. I was going to make it my profile picture. I was going to put it up in my office. I was going to post it right here on my blog. I was going to be willing to stand up and say it: I love Planned Parenthood.
I don’t love why Planned Parenthood exists. I don’t love that too many states allow legislators to restrict women’s health. I don’t love that we don’t do reproductive education well (or at all, or even worse that we do with mistruths). I don’t love the circumstances that find people needing the services of Planned Parenthood. I don’t even like all that Planned Parenthood has to do. I don’t… well enough of that. I could go on for a while and let’s not make this about what I don’t like. What I love is the dedicated staff of people who are doing the ministry of caring for people. Fighting for people. Fighting for life.
That’s right: fighting for life.
I walked out of a meeting this morning at a Planned Parenthood office/clinic and saw a lone protestor holding a sign that said, “They kill babies here.” I have a lot of thoughts about that sign but I will restrain myself. Here is what I thought that is most relevant: This is resurrection work. No, not the sign carrier. The people I love at Planned Parenthood. They are resurrection workers.
Let me back up.
On Easter Sunday I preached to my congregation, as you would expect a Christian pastor to be doing, about resurrection. The challenge I felt and shared this year was about filling places of death with life. The tomb the women in Mark’s Gospel encounter is not empty. It is full. It is full of mystery and wonder and messenger who tells them that Jesus has be raised from the dead. That Jesus would meet them – as he promised – and that they needed to go and tell, see and share, participate in resurrection life. The challenge I felt and share with my congregation was that we needed to be people who rolled back the insurmountable stones that trapped people in death. That we need to fill places of death with good news. That we need to “raise people up” even as we are raised up.
And then today it hit me: when I saw that message of death, that what these dedicated people were doing for the lives of those who come to them was EXACTLY that. They were rolling back stones too large to move. They were working hard to remove shame and barriers and replace them with care and nurture. They were promoting life in a place all too often named a tomb. They were resurrection workers. Though they wouldn’t call themselves such. They are just doing what they feel every human being should do. Help those who don’t know where to turn, and present options (all too often impossibly challenging ones) to people who were shut down and shamed at the other doors available.
Why do we make it so hard for people to care for people?
I heart Planned Parenthood. I love these people who do not care what others will label them or say about them or even say to them. They care too much about people and too much about life to let hate and ignorance hold them back. As a Christian I am called to grace, forgiveness, mercy… and building up of those who life has torn down. And from all I learned today, some of the greatest practitioners of that are the people working at Planned Parenthood. So I say it proudly: I love Planned Parenthood. I love the people that are Planned Parenthood. I love their ministry.
I love that they live resurrection in a way I only talk about it.
“Care. No matter what.” Those are words to LIVE by!
Posted on April 22, 2015, in Uncategorized. Bookmark the permalink. 96 Comments.
Wrestling with Discipleship 
Sir – I admire you! And thank you for seeing the true nature of the people of Planned Parenthood, those who do nothing but help those who need help, to help them live! Not all Christians see this, especially not all Christian leaders, preachers, pastors, etc. Thank you for sharing this with us and I am sharing this widely because you have said things that need to be read. May the Blessings of the Universe be with you!
You are welcome. I am always reminded that taking a stand that will offend some is more than worth when it also embraces so many with love that do not feel it often enough. Shame and guilt just don’t achieve anything worth pursuing.
Have you ever considered that we may feel shame and guilt for a reason? If we sin our conscience feels guilty because it is. I know because I’ve sinned in this way. I have been forgiven.
But I am not called to continue sinning and support murderers. I cannot in good conscience support abortion. I cannot imagine Jesus is ok with it. He has to be extremely saddened by it. I want to encourage you to research what abortion really is. It is murdering innocent babies. Sometimes the right thing to do is not so easy in this world. But if it’s the right thing, God will see us through and bless us. Abortion is wrong. Please reconsider your stance. I pray with all my heart you will think very carefully about this.
I consider that shame and guilt is insidious and caused by many things. This is why I would NEVER tell someone what they have to do in a situation. Particularly a situation I have never been in myself (though even if I could and had been it still would be different).
I think God sees us through all places, be they of her choosing or not. In the valley of the shadow of death God does not abandon us even when we fall short and wander off the path.
You regret the path you were made take. That is your story and I am both sorry for the pain you were made to feel and glad you feel redeemed from it now. But other stories aren’t your story. They may be, and they may be very different. I do not force people to live my life and truths and that is why I wish to walk loving with people through their choice and continue to love them regardless of the choices dovetailing with my own.
Andrew, I think you are making a mistake by suggesting that your unwillingness to tell someone what they should do in a situation means you can never tell someone that they should not sin.
There are so many difficult situations in life that could lead someone to make a decision they regret. In many, if not most, of those situations, that regrettable action is a sin. Are you saying, then, that because God sees us through in any situation that any decision we make in those difficult moments would be “right” (or at least not necessarily completely wrong)?
By encouraging women to use the services of a place like PP, where they will likely end up choosing to end the life of their unborn child, you are advocating for the covering of sin with more sin, as David did when he sinned with Bathsheba.
Abortion is either wrong or it is not. You said yourself that you do not love abortion. Why not? If it can truly be used as part of a ministry to lost, broken, desperate girls, what is not to love about it?
Perhaps you should ponder that question.
you’re not a Pastor, you are being used by satan and you sneaked into the church.
Shame and guilt is a healthy part of examining one’s conscience. God calls us to repent, and we cannot truly repent from our sins if we don’t experience some degree of shame and guilt.
You are no Pastor. You are a snake. With a special place in hell awsiting you.
This was really great to see. It gives me hope that some day the two sides of this battle can find common ground. Thank you for being a pastor with an open mind and open heart, we need more people like you if we are ever going to truly achieve Reproductive Justice.
Its a long struggle. I understand the hesitation and dismay of many, but certainly not the hate, anger, and ignorance. I have this naive hope that education, patient resistance and invitation, and time will bring us together. But I have the luxury of time and distance from the need that many others simply do not, so its easy for me to say that. :S
Love this post.
Thank you for your courage and your compassion, and for carrying a message of love and redemption where it is needed.
I am a pastor too, and I simply want to ask if you have ever seen an abortion performed or the results of one on the body of that small human baby (or fetus if you prefer)? If not, I’m not sure how you can support what you refuse to see. If you have seen it I wonder how you can love that work. Right now there are many abortion clinic workers (including PPFA workers) who are leaving that work realizing and waking up to what they were a part of. I wonder, as a pastor, if you’d be willing to not only talk to current Planned Parenthood workers (as you have already done) but to talk to any of those who have left. I’m not attacking you in any way, I am merely requesting you seek out this information and these people instead of just listening to what the current PPFA workers have to say. I also would love for you talk with many post-abortive women who live in mourning, sorrow, and regret and who specifically regret their decision – most of them not feeling like they were using their choice, but they were women who felt they had no choice. They didn’t realize there were those who would help them if they chose to have the baby. These are voices your post not only doesn’t represent but makes no mention of.
Paul I appreciate the open nature of your discourse.
Seeking out different stories is always a positive experience to give us a more enriched sense of the pain people are going through every day and all around us. I have had to witness many horrible things, and walk through many places of great pain and shame with people and I am always honored that these people trust me to walk with them in those moments. This post could never share all those stories, nor would it be effective if it tried.
I also could never answer the private anguish of millions of people with a single response or approach. I am grateful that I do not have to. I’m simply grateful for anyone, yourself included, who wishes to enter in a supportive way into people’s pain and allow them to come up with their own answers regardless of whether or not it is the choice I would make.
So have you seen an actual abortion though? It’s life changing if you haven’t. Obviously, we as pastors have seen many sad and hard things. But have you actually seen what an abortion is? If not, please do. We should never support something we refuse to look at. And of course PPFA is funded by far by their abortion business. The number of women who come out of PPFA’s who choose adoptions is almost nil comparatively. Doesn’t this concern even those who think abortions should be safe, legal, and rare? They are not rare at PPFAs. They are the norm. Such facts require deeper questions into the work that you claim to love. On the other hand, if you go spend time at a crisis pregnancy center you will find non-judgmental and caring people but who offer and help with a full array of options for women with unplanned pregnancies. Of course, as a Presbyterian you know what is unplanned by a woman is still planned by God. As the Scriptures tell us, every life in the womb is formed by God and He very much meant it to be there.
Paul I do not want to get in a back and forth at great length, my schedule won’t allow it and I’m sorry it has taken me this long to reply. But I have seen abortion, and as a former inner city hospital chaplain have walked through all manner of fetal death and held and blessed and mourned unborn children.
To your other point, though Stephanie is correct this was about all that Planned Parenthood is and stands for and its so much more than abortions, you are also correct that it is also about abortion services.
I now live in Idaho. Thousands of doctors and hospitals and clinics provide reproductive services, pregnancy services, and adoption services. IN THE WHOLE STATE only 1 person outside of Planned Parenthood provides any options that include abortion. So if you are a person who is considering abortion as an option the ONLY place you can go that will let you think through that is PP. So… it alters the stats.
(And I won’t even begin to discuss the horrible literature of lies that you find out there at many so called clinics and services, some of which PP still gives out with a straight face because they are required to.)
They provide a space for choice. If they are the only place that puts all the cards on the table, while someone who doesn’t need an abortion option can go many many other places, they are going to end up with unbalanced numbers. That is a symptom of the larger dysfunction, not PP’s fault.
Is PP a perfect organization? Absolutely not. I haven’t ever met one. In fact I theologically don’t believe such a thing is possible.
After the now 7 horrible videos coming out showing the heinous activity of PPFA – do you still support them? Have you watched all 7 videos? Do you think Christ would champion what goes on in those videos?
I wonder though paul, if you are missing the the point. This does not seem to me an article weighing out the for or against articles of abortion. It seems to be a message to remind us to walk and live in love vs hate and shame. That picket signs with death and hateful messages are not as helpful as those who let go of their own egos and say… I am here and will love and support you no matter your choices because that is what my religion really requires. At least this is the message I got from this article. Live in love and support, offer it and let go of the death and hate and shame.
Stephanie, I’m quite supportive of putting love over death and shame. But unfortunately the article is called “I heart planned parenthood” and is arguing that PPFA is places that do that. Sadly (looking at PPFA’s annual report they provide) PPFA makes a huge profit off their over 320,000 abortions they provide every year. You cannot say you love that organization and act like that isn’t happening. 94% of PPFA’s pregnancy services are abortions. Yikes! If a pregnant woman walks into their office for a pregnancy service, 94% of the time the service they end up getting is an abortion. That should tell us something is very wrong with their model of pregnancy service. What choices are you offering if 94% of the time people “choose” abortion. Prenatal care is only 5% of their pregnancy services and adoption services are 0.5% of the pregnancy services. And even though the abortion rate in America is going down, it’s actually going up at PPFA. Not only that, their services like cancer screenings, prenatal services, adoption referrals, and even contraception services have gone down each year lately. This is a disturbing trend. I’m all for promoting love over shame and death, but this organization doesn’t fit the definition when we look at their own annual report.
How lovely to see a pastor be not only Christian, but Christ-like.
Yes Taylor, we should get him a meat cleaver and let him run rampant through the OB dept of any hospital…how very Christ like
Abortion is not a religious issue. It is a race issue because Margaret Sanger began Planned Parenthhod as a way to thin the black population. It is a gender issue because more baby girls are aborted than baby boys. It is a poverty issue because I was told, like many other young poor women, I would not be able to support a child. It is a human issue because we are devaluing human life.
Ruthann I am sorry you were told that. This causes me pain and frustration. And that is but a poor echo of the pain and frustration you were living.
Our country was founded by people who owned black people. It is a horrible legacy we are still living and wrestling with. Do we think our country is a horrible country no-one should want to live in and does no good because the founders were being less the genuine when they said all men were equal? Do we think our country is completely evil because this still continues a divisive racial legacy in insidious ways today?
As I said in other places. No institution is without some guilt. No country, or collective of people is all good… no person is all good. I hope each of us is seeking to foster the good and diminish the brokenness and hurt within our selves, our communities and organizations, and our world.
What I affirm in my experience (which is limited by the fact that I am but one person) is that there is much that is about lifting up the human spirit that I see in the work of PP and that stands in stark contrast to what many people represent it as who want to focus solely on presenting the worst versions of PP’s most morally challenging work.
That’s the most ridiculous thing ever. Saying that the good things PP does stands in “stark contrast” to the far greater numbers of butcherings it carries out and calling that “morally challenging”?
That’s like saying there’s a man who’s a bastion of a community–would never miss a Sunday service, has paid for the church’s new addition, sits on the school board, rivals Solomon in his fairness of judgement with community issues, writes compelling articles for the local newspaper, routinely walks dogs for the pet rescue, volunteers at the senior center. . . this guy’s ministry to everyone is unequaled.
But nevermind that he molested the neighbor kids and is grooming his grandchildren.
Oh, but so what? Who cares because the enormous good he does for the greater community at large FAR outweighs the morally challenging work he does on the side that people might rather focus on.
You are at best a hypocrite and at worst a murderer.
I know what is is like to be a penniless single pregnant woman. Thus I spend a lot of time and resources to support women in that same position. I don’t carry signs, I buy cribs. I don’t belittle women who have abortions, I hold them while they weep. As a believer in Jesus Christ I understand that we have to truly care for one another but I do not understand your support of those who are “swift to shed inocent blood.” We can look back on the sins of slavery in the past. One day those who follow us may look back at us with disgust at our lack of reverence for human life.
Ruthann, my heart bleeds for you. And it bleeds for every woman encouraged by organizations like PP to exercise her right to choose to end the life she carried inside of her, only to regret it later. I’ve held these sobbing women in my arms as well–one of them being my sister. It is the most difficult hurt to console, the one someone chose for herself. Abortion wounds women, so very deeply. And yet, we have another man here that misses the collateral damage of a procedure designed to protect mens’ financial interests, not help women.
I totally agree! Very well said, Ruthann!
Thank you for truly following Christ’s lead. It’s very true, Jesus does not want us to ignore sin and look the other way in the name of compassion. No. He calls us to do more!
You are right! Human life is precious and sacred. We are called to a great reverence for the gift of life! Thank you, beloved.
Sir,
I appreciate and value your ability to understand and have compassion about the difficult choices humanity is faced with. I applaud your decision to manifest this compassion by speaking out for so many whose voices have been silenced by such a large contingent of those who purport to share your faith. I appreciate your willingness to engage compassionately with those who’s views are so clearly anti-choice, and disguised, perhaps even to their inner monologue as compassion–but which in reality is ignorance and a poverty of compassion. You are to be commended. Please keep up the good work.
Andrew,
Please resign from pastoral ministry. You call evil good and good evil. You are a wolf in sheep’s clothing making converts who will each be twice as much a son of hell as you. Please do them a favor, resign, and do something productive with your life.
This is the most absurd blog post I have ever read, and I’ve read many.
You are completely right, Joel. This guy is a false teacher. He is distorting the gospel and will have to answer for it.
You can not fathom how happy I am to see a pastor speaking out in this manner. I also think I’d attend your services if I lived closer (3 states away). I’m tired of the hate and guilt that is so often found in religion where I live.
I admire Andrew Kukla. He is part of a noble and enduring tradition. Abortion hysteria is not all of our history — it is a recent phenomenon — one that has made great hay and entire careers for the sort of politicians — who play on hysteria and witch hunts — and who don’t much care if nurses and doctors are murdered along the way. And mainline Christian churches have long had a huge role in supporting women who sought abortions and in obtaining Roe v Wade to make sure the procedure became — and remains — legal and therefore safe. There are many eloquent Christian writings in support of choice. Perhaps some on this thread need a better education in them. I am sadden to realize that the vicious campaign again women’s health care lingers on in what I will kindly call misunderstandings. I find here base accusations that have been refuted by documentation over and over. I can’t imagine how anyone who even imagines himself in touch with any god can repeat them. Planned Parenthood is a non-profit organization — not to accept that is to posit a fantastic conspiracy such as lies at the heart of all witch hunting. Their books are open. Please look at them. Abortion is a small part of their services. Claims that it is 90% or more of what PP offers are wrong — plain and simple. I have gotten PAP smears, breast examines, and good, honest birth control advice from them. I got low-cost pills that I took for a period of time for the problems with onset of menopause. I have noticed the PP’s critics make no plans to replace those services if they succeed in driving PP out of business. The method of “dealing” with this is pretend that PP does not indeed offer these services, tell lies about PP, and aggrandize oneself as very caring about women. The veneer over the maliciousness is rather thin, though, isn’t it? I don’t want cribs or a manipulative “comfort” aimed at inducing or perpetuating guilt — I want honesty, science, medicine, and to make my own choices. I feel unmoved by tales of women regretting their choices — when the net offers up so many stories of people regretting belonging to religions they later decided were lies or filled with hate. It would seem that life is full of choices one might — or might not — later regret. And the lies about Sanger are also old — as if offering women birth control is not in their best interest. And denying poor women abortion does not put one meal on the table or one booty on a foot. Unfortunately, the same political party seeking to criminalize abortion also seek to criminalize poverty, attack food stamps, attack support for poor pregnant women. Instead of complaining that women seek abortions because they are poor, perhaps some here need to look long and hard at the political programs they support. I don’t care of hypocrisy.
Non profit? Not for profit? Watch Blood Money…a documentary. Get some info.
Wow… I have been blessed to quietly support poor women, black women, white women, post abortion women, & post birth women. I do not belong to a political party. I do take seriously and peacefully the opportunity to serve with compassion and without condemnation in the name of Jesus Christ. I may not understand Andrew Kuklas’ reasoning but he only has to find peace with God not with me.
Ruthann, thank you for your work, your grace, your ministry. I may draw some different conclusions but I still admire your quiet spirit of love and building people up. As you have spoken here you exemplify “Care, no matter what.” And that is the spirit that I love.
Jesus was full of grace and truth. The truth is that abortion is murder. That truth will more than likely not win souls or saved unborn babies if read on a picket sign outside a Planned Parenthood. It is a statement that is all truth, no grace. Then there are those who are all grace, no truth. They say they love people where they are, but never tell them there is a better way. Jesus did not leave the woman caught in adultery and tell her to go back to living the way she had. He didn’t say, “Neither do I condemn you,” and then walk away. He then said, “Go, and sin no more.” He didn’t save us to leave us in sin, and as Christ-followers we are to preach that message, one full of grace AND truth. But your message of “grace” not only extends to the women who have abortions, but also to the Planned Parenthood workers. And then to call them “resurrection workers” when the truth is that they do not give life, but they TAKE life in droves– sir, there are not words for how grieved I am over this. I pray that you come to see God’s TRUTH. Because what you believe has nothing to do with it.
I am not going to defend abortion. I do not love abortion. The Bible condemns killing but also makes God out to be a killer as well (commanding even the death of infants that I will not claim of God even though it sits in the Bible). This ambiguity sits in our holy scripture. I cannot reconcile the discordant voices of scripture… I am not God.
What I count on is God’s constant loving forgiveness of my sinfulness. I will always be a sinner; you will be too. We all count on God’s grace to “not condemn us.” Whether we quote a women caught in adultery or the prophet Hosea who speaks God’s frustration over our sinfulness that we constantly turn away and yet also God’s unending commitment to compassion:
“My people are bent on turning away from me. To the Most High they call, but he does not raise them up at all. How can I give you up, Ephraim? How can I hand you over, O Israel? How can I make you like Admah? How can I treat you like Zeboiim? My heart recoils within me; my compassion grows warm and tender. I will not execute my fierce anger; I will not again destroy Ephraim; for I am God and no mortal, the Holy One in your midst, and I will not come in wrath.”
Whether I personally agree with the choices, whether you personally agree with the choices, is irrelevant. God has made God’s own choices irrelevant in so far as compassionate and loving response is concerned.
So yes, we try to hold the balance of not being condemning, and not trying to sin. And I will not achieve the right balance. That much is guaranteed. I thank God for compassion and forgiveness.
Don’t you see? There is a clear distinction between showing someone compassion and mercy and taking their hand to lead them into sin.
You cannot mercifully lead someone to sin. Do you claim that abortion (which you say you “do not love”) is not a sin?
Why would you ever compare the Sovereignty of God with human choice? God making any decision is His right within His Justice and His Followers are to trust in that. To the contrary, any human taking the innocent life of a baby via abortion is never a Godly choice. It is a human killing a human. I speak from within an abortion experience unlike most – which you can find on my ministry site. I do not take this lightly as God does not.
By “hearting” PP in your light-hearted way, and saying you have supported what they do is not a Godly thing to do. I should be shocked that you have a single person sitting in your congregation with your support of a place that boasts about their abortion stats, but anymore I am not shocked when I hear of people with such callous attitudes towards innocent lives. And sadly this world has become saturated with others that think like you do. It breaks my heart into a million pieces. I believe in helping the women find love and there within loving alternatives, because God loves.
I am shocked that you think abortion as a ministry I had one and believe me as a child I had no choice it was that or be homeless again. But I can tell you planned parenthood did not give me any information on any alternatives, they are not about to let there paycheck walk out the door. The government should not support poor people, pay for abortion or alot of things they meddle in. The church is suppose to help with the poor people, the local church can do a better job of supplying the needs of people plus God know if they are actually needing help or just lying to get it. I have worked long and hard to overcome the pain, emptiness and all other emotional scarring that abortion left me with. Abortion is just as harmful to woman as physical, emotional or mental abuse is!!! Never mind the fact that is life and taking it well the bible says that is murder and that is not ok!!!
I never said I think abortion is ministry. Yes, abortion happens at PP which I did call a ministry. I find the overall work and space that PP provides a ministry. I already named that I do not like all that they do, or all that happens that necessitates a place like PP exists. But I do admire the space they provide and the work they do while having endless hate heaped on them (some of which I have gotten to experience first hand for the two shorts days since I posted this).
I turn away people asking for money at my church. (I am glad to know that you give so much money to your church that they can solves everyone’s needs.) Turning away people in need is NOT ministry. But I do it. I don’t like it. I don’t feel good doing it. I wish I had the resources to help every needy person who walked in my door and the time to sit down with them and make sure they are effectively using those resources. I wish I could go back in time and change the decisions and circumstances that put that person in need. But I cannot. And so in my ministry I find myself doing many things that are not, in and of themselves, ministry. I wrestle with that, I try to seek guidance and forgiveness from the Spirit… it is why I call this space Wrestling with Discipleship. They only thing I can guarantee is that like Jacob I will come out limping.
So PP engages in some things I wish they didn’t. I will never make up another person’s mind for them which is why I prefer a system that puts all cards on the table even cards I don’t like. I will point to options, and I completely agree with all you say about the pain and emptiness and harm and that should never be taken lightly.
I am sorry you were not given options. That is not consistent with the practices of the people I know and love who work with PP, but every organization – including the churches I know and love – fall short and fail people at times. I don’t give up on organizations for failing any more than I give up on people, or myself, for failing. We all walk away limping… but loved.
Calling what planned parenthood does a “ministry” is similar to calling a murderous mafia hit man a “ministry” because he helps thin out the ranks of undesirable Italians who engage in crimes. In Israel they fed their baby children alive into the fire god moleck to appease him. Today millions of children are sacrificed on the altar of inconvenience.
Just like YOU, planned parenthood does what they do for the MONEY. They don’t really care about people, or about LIFE. They are KILLING people, destroying LIFE, just for the MONEY! Abortion brings them big profits! You obviously don’t really care about the people you pretend to serve either, you just want their MONEY!
True Christians are not fooled by you, them or satan, the master that you BOTH serve
I love this Pastor!!! He is practicing love, as Jesus commanded, by loving and supporting all women, especially the scared, the poor, and those that feel alone in their decisions. Just as Jesus said in the story of the adulterous woman, when the men wanted to stone her. Jesus did not stone her with words, as so many do today. Instead he turned to the men and said, “ye who are without sin, throw the first stone”.
I am very disheartened to read this from a Pastor. One charged to care of the church. Wow. I don’t even know where to begin. I was a 15 yr old pregnant teenager when I walked thru PP of Denton Texas’s doors. I was offered no support, solace, help, referrals to anything other than abortion via Routh Street Clinic in Dallas. No – sweetheart, how did this happen ( maybe I was raped for all they knew) or- can we call your parents ( so maybe someone that loved me could be there to help me) or even – take a few days to process this, here are your options. Nothing. Just the results and a referral to the clinic in Dallas. I ended up aborting my twins at 12 weeks. Alone, scared and with no one. I really think you need to get on your knees and ask the Holy Spirit to speak to the harmful words you are sharing world wide. The confusion you will sow among His precious church. The dissension and division. The opening up of wounds when grieving women read a “pastors” words that he LOVES the place that so intimately violated her in her greatest moment of need.
Maybe instead of celebrating a company that makes a LOT of money off stopping beating hearts in the womb you can instead support those local free charitable clinics that provide services – sans the ones that kill babies. Do you think they (PP) are killing babies? Maybe your church could even open up weekend clinics – partnering with local doc and nurses that affirm life? Maybe you could read up on this org http://www.feministsforlife.org or spend time at a local post abortion support group.
You could do SO many things that would make a real difference in the lives of poor women in need besides lending not only your name but THE LORDS name and reputation to such a divisive issue / divisive organization – and a topic that the Bible clearly speaks against- taking life- in and outside of the womb.
I pray that you are convicted by the Holy Spirit and repent of your words. The Bible speaks directly that those in leadership will be held to high standard before the Lord. May you seriously consider how you will answer for this before Him one day.
and , if you have a heart for the clinic worker- maybe begin work with http://www.attwn.org – this org helps abortion workers heal from the trauma and PTSD they suffer- that is a real need that pastors could assist with.
So many truly resurrection minded options out there- for those that want to serve the Cross of Christ.
Do you not even know the consequences of what you are saying? God doesn’t knit and form the inmost being of a child in the womb (Psalms 139:13) simply to be brutally-murdered–unless that child in question is the incarnate Word, Jesus Christ. The crowds are calling for these babies to be murdered; cease the role of Pilate! Let the children come to Him! (Matthew 14:19) That Planned Parenthood clinic is blessed by the prophetess protester. I pray that one day the words of activists–and the silent screams of of millions of aborted babies–reach PP, all abortion clinics, and their associates.
The level of deception that is required to convince someone who identifies themselves as a Christian Pastor to believe that the literal slaughtering of babies made in the image of God as an acceptable and valid option is quite literally heartbreaking. In no way does your position reflect what the God of Scripture expects of his children. Future generations will look back on us in disgust, for sure. They’ll call us barbaric, because, really, what kind of people kill their own children? And what kind of representative of God as pastor, or shepherd, looks his flock in the eyes and tells them this is OK and even further, a cause they should champion? We are deceived beyond recognition as children of the King. We should hold a consistent ethic of life from womb to tomb, and we should be especially concerned with those least able to advocate for themselves. Abortion hurts babies AND WOMEN. This post is absolute heartbreaking.
Your total disregard for God and His word are par for the course of this country which is slowly sinking into the depths of it’s demise. I wish I could say that I was astounded by your clearly misleading statements on this blog, but in reality…I am not surprised one bit. People like you are the reason the church is in such a state of disrepair and I do say people, because you are not a pastor. A pastor cares for his sheep…will die for them if necessary.
Your words prove you are nothing more than a hired hand. You offer cheap grace instead of tough love. Have you shed blood in your efforts against sin? I pray that one day your child does not come to you in tears offering her story of abortion…because you said it was a viable option. God will not offer grace to one who intentionally hurts children…and yes those unborn babies are included in the lot.
One in your position does not deserve grace but instead like the money changers of Jesus time deserves a whip….for you have turned the house of God into a den of thieves. I pray that God will not allow you to sleep comfortably until you have repented from this most grievous sin.
I disagree very much with your views on abortion. If your mother would have chosen abortion, you wouldn’t even be here! Think about it……
Heretical Pastors support the Planned Parenthood “Killing Fields”. 50 Million unborn children torn apart in the womb to date, and rapidly rising. This wholesale butchering and ripping apart of unborn children robs millions of Children of ever knowing or experiencing the amazing wonders of life and creation. All because they have the misfortune of being in the womb of heartless selfish women driven by self-interest: Who has no regard for the life of her unborn child. These heartless people can be very thankful that they themselves were not victims of their uncaring, ungraceful, pro abortion agenda and mindset.
Why not ask Miss Tonya Reaves who was left to bleed for 5 hours after her abortion how she feels about your beloved butchers at planned parenthood. You’re in bed with satan pastor dude and you are so blinded by your own smug pride that you cannot see.
What a thoroughly wicked false teacher. The good news is that wolves like this guy got warm and took the sheep’s clothing off. If you follow “Christian” Leftist like him, you get what you deserve.
Planned Parenthood kills babies for a living, they systematically hide rape, incest and sex trafficking, they encourage kids to have all sorts of out-of-wedlock sex and pretend that it can be done without risks, they would rather destroy a breast cancer charity than part ways amicably, they commit Medicaid fraud, they teach kids the joys of BDSM, and so much more. Their leaders and abortionists get rich off of death and misery, aided by your taxes. They use some of that money to fund propaganda telling women that if they aren’t willing to kill their children that they can’t be equal in value to men.
And they do it with the blessing of fake Christians like this guy.
I am also a Presbyterian Pastor and I am deeply grieved by this blog post. I believe the heart of God is grieved by this blog post. Life is precious. It is particularly fragile at the beginning. it is always a sad event when a mother suffers a miscarriage or stillbirth. But what kind of event is it when such previous lives are deliberately taken? It is of course appropriate to offer the grace and the forgiveness of God to someone who has made such a dreadful choice. But to bless the work of the largest abortion provider in America? No. No. No. God help them, and frankly, you.
LET ME LEAVE A RESPONSE TO THE TRAGICALLY LOST LIE PEDDLER WHO CALLS HIMSELF A PASTOR…… First of all the denomination of Presbyterian is an ABSOLUTE GROUP OF LOST PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT RECOGNIZED WHATSOEVER AS A TRUE CHURCH, NOR DO THEY FOLLOW ANY SEMBLANCE OF TRUTH FROM CHRISTIAN BIBLICAL STUDIES…..NOW LET THE BIBLE RESPOND TO THIS TEAGICALLY HOPELESS LIAR >>> JESUS SAID WOE TO ANYONE WHO LAYS A HAND ON OR HARMS AN INNOCENT CHILD….. FOR IT WOULD BE BETTER FOR HIM TO HAVE A GIANT MILLSTONE TIED AROUND HIS NECK AND TO BE TOSEED INTO THE DEPTHS OF THE SEA!!! JESUS also said >>>> YOU WILL KNOW A TREE BY ITS FRUIT… A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot produce good fruit……/.
THE PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH IS REJECTED BY ALL OTHER TRUE CHRISTIANS CHURCHES …..,BECAUSE IN 1967 THIS GROUP REJECTED THE HOLY BIBLE AND REPLACED IT WITH WHATEVER THEY CHOOS ……. AND NOW YOU ALL CAN SEE HOW TRAGICALLY FRIGHTENING THIS IS …….. THAT THESE DEVILS THESE PATHETIC SATANISTS JUST LIKE THE BIBLE STATES …….. SATAN HIMSELF MASQUERADES ABOUT AND PORTRAYS HIMSELF AS AN ANGEL OF LIGHT ……..TO BE HORRIFICALLY HONEST THIS GROUP IS A SATANIC CULT!!!
How very disgusting. The unborn children who are murdered by this heinous organization, will most certainly hold the door open for you as the Lord shoves you through the gate to hell. Thou shalt not kill. period…
Thank you Andrew for your beautiful words and strength in the face of such unwarranted vitriol. Love and compassion will prevail. Keep your head up and thank you for your support of such an important organization!
I’m humbled to be the executive director of a Pregnancy Medical Center.
We offer women FREE services! At no cost to the client: Pregnancy tests, ultrasounds, factual printed brochures on ALL of her pregnancy related choices & associated risks- abortion, adoption parenting.
Are we out on the sidewalk with signs praying? NO. That is not what God has called us to do.
Do we perform or refer for abortions? No!
Our mission is to reach out in love to scared young pregnant women. Inside you will find a serine non clinical setting.providing compassion, love, & non judgemental assistance.
We are located next to Planned Parenthood.
I love one thing about their governmental funded organization also. They refer pregnant women to our Free ministry for our educational program because PP does not make any money by offering education if a mom is going to carry her baby to term.
Our educational programs includes: prenatal, labor & delivery, nutrition, finance classes, positive partnerships, RTS perinatal bereavement support, single parenting, fatherhood classes, first aid, preventing child abuse, fetal alcohol syndrome, post abortion support, etc….over 200 classes!
Yes, we support families after the baby is born. Our Earn While You Learn program offers the material items that can be earned by class participation.
Through our community outeachwe can refer our clients if necessary for other services such as professional counseling, medicaid, financial assistance , daycare & WIC through the local Health Department.
40 years of loving as Christ would, by extending mercy, love, grace & compassion.
Praying for Gods truth to be revealed, eyes to be opened, & hearts to be changed!
Amen Sister.
how bout we love and support the women to carry their children to term and if need be love and support them through the adoption process…but love and support her right to kill her baby?? as a Christian and follower of Christ, I say no!! but we will be there when the woman who allows her child to be ripped from her body needs someone to TRULY love and support her, after she realizes what she has done and repents.
I don’t know even where to begin. But Jesus’ words come to mind. “And at the end of days, false prophets will come in my name, they will heal and cast out demons, and if possible they will fool even the chosen ones”. How can you “heart PP” but not “like” what they do and why they need to exist. To love PP is to condone what they do, which is murder unborn children, children who were knitted together by God’s hand in their mother’s womb’s, only to be torn piece by piece, be burnt in chemical solutions or poisoned by the hands of an abortionist sanctioned by the one person that is meant to love and protect that innocent life. We are not called to judge lest we be judged but the bible also calls us to warn our brother if he is in sin, and shall he not listen to you, take another brethren and together warn him of his sin, if he still does not turn from his sin God will judge him harshly”. Peace be with you, I pray that you search God’s truth and that it may be revealed to you, for your burden as a “preacher” is greater than that of the flock.
Andrew, I am so sorry that you advocate for an organization who has a quota for abortions. Christ never said that we must kill the most vulnerable and poor in our society, but you are advocating just that by supporting such an organization. There is never a reason to murder another human being. The Bible tells us that each child is a gift. Mother Mary was a wonderful expample that we must follow. Mother Mary was facing an ‘unplanned ‘ pregnancy, but choose life for her child, Jesus. What better expample than that? Who are we to play God and kill the most vulnerable and poor in or society? These children don’t even get to be heard by a judge or jury. Why are you not defending the lives of the most innocent?
I love – that you love – the unloved.
What Ruthann and Paul Cooper have said is true. Planned Parenthood was founded by Margaret Sanger, who believed in killing black babies. Any pastor that would come out and say “I heart Planned Parenthood” is a supporter of murder of the innocent. Since Roe vs Wade in 1973, over 55 million innocent babies have been slaughtered in the name of choice. Was the aborted baby given a choice to live? No! Andrew Kukla, you should not be a pastor of a Christian church at all. The Presbyterian church has been blighted recently with it’s support of same sex marriages and it’s support of Palestinians and other Muslim terrorist groups that hate Israel. Now, we have this “pastor” promoting Planned Parenthood, that has the blood of innocent unborn babies on their hands. This is the last days apostasy we were told of in the scriptures that would come. It’s absolutely sickening to me as a born again believer in Jesus Christ, but I realize it was prophesied to happen.
It saddens me to hear of Christians who so “bravely” stand up for people who choose to make a living butchering unborn children. Why is it that so many of my brothers and sisters have decided that they cannot have compassion without compromise?
The work that abortionists do, which you call a ministry, is anything but life affirming. It doesn’t lift women up. It crushes them down and fills them with lies so convincing that they often feel that they have no other choice.
Jesus wants us to love the least of these. Are we doing that when we support women in their efforts to murder their own children? Are not those unborn children also the least of these? Shouldn’t we, as those who claim to follow Christ, do everything we can to love both the mother and her unborn child?
I can only pray that God will open your eyes to the evil of abortion.
Wow again – you have certainly stirred up passions. Earlier I was accused of “ignorance and a poverty of compassion”. You have garnered praise and condemnation.
Yesterday I sent the weekly email to the prayer partners from our church. They pray for each of the people that we minister to each week by name. I also included some of the discussion from this page. You have also landed on my personal prayer list.
You now have the national attention through facebook. I pray that the Lord will speak life to you… His life.
PCUSA. That’s all you need to know.
I am a retired Family Physician and find Andrew Kukla’s viewpoint misleading and offensive. I have worked with women who have never recovered from the psychological damage of abortion. Raging that abortion doesn’t hurt women is ignorant as there are no US studies to prove that it doesn’t. Bett Crigger, Chair of the American Medical Association’s Ethics Committee has admitted that the AMA HAS NEVER STUDIED the long-term effects of abortion on women. The powerful Guttmacher Institute, self-styled “feminist” lobbyists, and Planned Parenthood have made the study of this question in the US impossible. Our only data on comes from overseas, and every study I have seen shows severe long term consequences.
Roe v Wade was based on the incomplete science of the mid-70s. No one knew that children in the womb were pain capable and the common parlance among the ignorant was that “the fetus is a bit of tissue”. But given Ruth 1:11, Isaiah 49:5 , Jeremiah 1:5, Luke 1:44, Luke 2:23, [which Kukla ignores in his “cherry picking” scripture], it was inevitable that science would eventually catch up to the Biblical viewpoint that babies in the womb are human beings.
The Planned Parenthood viewpoint does match Kukla’s emphasis on “love”, secular humanist style. But humanism is based on Confucius’ Analects, which is another religion, not Christianity. Given that 75% of US citizens are Christians, it is hardly a wonder that Kukla’s church is so empty.
At 8 months, children in the womb are 96% viable. These children are human beings just waiting to come out of the womb. They are not homunculi. They are not the disposable toys of sex gone awry. They are not “tissue”. In an 8 month abortion, you are tearing a living child apart.
Let’s try a controlled scientific experiement. Scientists could, hypothetically, put two children in a room, one in a womb, and one in a crib. They could hypothetically tear each apar,t limb from limb. One would scream and cry during it’s death and tears would be shed, suggesting that the result was scientifically inhumane. But you would not be able to hear the other child scream because it is “underwater”. This death, with no one even able to hear your cries, is more humane? Yet, it is a ministry of Christ according to the shallow minded Kukla.
The unborn are not a “choice” except in the sense that it is “a social good” to murder them according a minority [<30% of American citizens] and a very tiny group of pastors sucking up to the political winds of the moment. How damning, to be complemented on his religious views by the president of the largest chain of abortion clinics, Cecile Richards?
As Kirkegaard said: “Our life always expresses the result of our dominant thoughts.” Kukla’s dominant thoughts are dark, unseemly shadows of both scientific and Biblical truth.
Let’s see. The most innocent and voiceless in our society. You love the fact that they are getting slaughtered by this organization. Sick.
The views expressed by this Presbyterian pastor are the logical expression of his Protestantism.
Those who advocate evils such as abortion will, unless they repent, be damned and experience the pains of hell, with the loss of God, for all eternity. Their punishment will be to hear the cries of the tens of millions of aborted babies forever, and they will be unable to love.
It will be done of their own free will, as they choose the way of Lucifer: “Non serviam.”
The Blessed Virgin and Saint Joseph are in Heaven with the Holy Trinity, and they are there because they know what true love is. Anyone who thinks unrepentant abortionists and their applauders will share Heaven with them is deluded beyond anything imaginable. It is called a reprobate sense: the inability to recognize the difference between good and evil, Christ and Satan.
Blessed Mother Teresa, someone who also knows what TRUE love is and whose exemplary life while on earth demonstrated that fact, is on record as having stated that “nuclear war is the fruit of abortion.”
We shall see, America, whether she was right. We shall see.
As a Pastor you are accountable for all the people you lead or mislead when it comes to Judgement Day. Therefore, when you are face to face with The Lord on that Day, will He agree with you that abortion is ok? In the end, nothing else matters.
Judgment Day is the Day is the Day The Lord separates the sheep from the goats and The Lord says to some “Depart from me, I never knew you.” Matthew 7:21-23.
You seem more concerned with man’s opinion than God’s. You might refocus and repent before it is too late.
Thank you for all that you do! I am incredibly inspired and humbled by your wise words. The world needs more people like you.
You are not a Minister. You are not a Reverend. You are an Embarrassment to the Christian Community and in particular, the Presbyterian. How pathetic to come in here pretending to be Christian then supporting the degenerate activities of this pathetic demoralized group. Fake. Fraud.
These women need compassion and healthy options, not sinful ones. Jesus warned us to turn away from sin, not embrace it!
Tearing apart and murdering unborn children is not the answer.
For a pastor to embrace such sin is unbelievable! I will pray for you that your eyes will be opened to the truth.
As a woman in her 50s who will never forget her abortion as a teenager, I have asked for forgiveness. I have been redeemed by the blood of Christ. I am a member of Clear Lake Presbyterian Church in Houston, Texas.
If this is what Presbyterian pastors believe, that it’s “ok” to kill unborn babies, then I want nothing to do with them. My authority is Jesus Christ who is full of mercy and grace and TRUTH. Jesus would never be ok with murdering babies. He would help the woman. He would cry with the woman. He would help her make a better choice. But he would never tell her to kill her child.
so very true and thank God you repented and are now made clean by the blood of Jesus. I don’t think all Presbyterian Pastors are like this but they seem to be getting more and liberal in their thinking.
This so-called Pastor is part of the PCUSA (liberal) branch of the Presbyterian Church according to someone in the post earlier. Makes sense because this branch of the church tends to embrace beliefs the other two branches DO NOT. There are also PCA (Reformed) and OPC (Orthodox) branches that absolutely would not embrace this Pastor’s stance on abortion. Check with your Pastor as to which branch your church is affiliated with.
As a pastor you speak of “your truth”, but my goodness! It’s not about my truth or your truth. It’s about THE truth. God’s truth.
I agree we are sinners and all fall short. We need love and compassion above all.
But it is extremely irresponsible and against Jesus’ teaching to endorse and promote sin. Killing babies is a sin. Bottom line. Are they developing babies? Yes. But so is a 5 year old compared to a 40 year old. Is one life less important than the other? What is the difference? The only difference is development. That’s it.
I have full compassion on the woman, as I’ve been in those shoes. I know what it’s like.
Jesus forgives us in our sin. But he also makes very clear to “sin no more”. We keep sinning. But we have to do our best to turn from it.
We know so much more about fetal development now than we did a few decades ago. We do not have to destroy human life to be “ok”.
There is no sugar coating it. It is killing a precious human life. An innocent human life, in a most heinous way! The child is literally torn apart.
There is no way anyone who calls them self a Christian can really look at abortion and say it isn’t wrong.
Just as adultery, stealing, rape, incest, etc. Murder is wrong.
It’s not “your truth” or “my truth”.
It’s biblically wrong.
As a pastor you are called to encourage people to turn away from blatant sin. Not encourage it.
That’s all I’m saying. Please consider the people you are leading astray.
You say you are supporting the abortionists in the name of mecy and compassion. But if you do not name it for what it is you are leading people astray. We MUST speak the truth in love. It’s not a popularity contest.
Believe me, you can still be full of love and compassion and have conviction too.
I want to encourage you to look at what abortion really means. Medically as well as spiritually. What do you think Jesus would do? Not turn from the woman in crisis. But there is no way he would encourage killing her unborn child either.
If you research the truth, medically and biblically and still say he would be ok with it, you are a false teacher and not of God.
Andrew, you are not a true shepherd, but rather a man whom Jesus described in John 10:12, “a hireling.” You are not a shepherd as you suppose yourself to be. Your knowledge of God’s word is lacking, especially as stated in Psalm 139: 13-15. Lastly, you are further described as being of “your father the Devil,” as stated in John 8:44 and you speak lies as Satan does, regarding abortion. You need to repent of your wickedness. I pray that the scales will fall from your eyes before it is too late.
you sir know nothing about the God you pretend to serve, you serve your father satan and the blood that is on your hands is the blood of all the unborn children that you think it’s ok to kill. don’t you dare compare these murderous monsters at planned parenthood with the resurrection of my Lord!!! you should be ashamed but you wont because you are to puffed up with pride! don’t call yourself a Christian, if you were you would never stand up for what happens in those places, it’s not life, it’s not womens health, it’s death and darkness and ugliness. may God have mercy on you because you will need it.
Thank you, Andrew, for your courageous stand supporting the important work that Planned Parenthood does throughout our nation and around the world. I’m sure you are getting a lot of less-than-Christian replies, but know that you also have a lot of admirers.
God loves everyone the same. Therefore we should love each other. Jesus said love your Lord God first, then love your neighbor as yourself.
He is full of love and mercy.
But God hates sin. The message of the cross is to CONFESS your sins and you will be forgiven. Put your faith in Jesus Christ, ask Him for forgiveness, and He will give it freely. A free gift. We need only ask and lay down our sins and burdens at the foot of Jesus. At the foot if the cross. We will then become adopted children of God and have eternal life in Him. Nothing will then separate you from the love of God that is in you.
Confess that this is wrong. Turn away from sin- from promoting wrongdoing.
If you question whether this is wrong or not? The bible is very clear about how we are to be a voice for women and children and the elderly. For the poor and broken hearted. For those who mourn. God loves you! Right where you are. But He loves you way too much to keep you there!
The truth is killing your unborn child is not the answer. If you’ve already been there, the good news is God offers forgiveness freely through Christ Jesus!
God is saddened by abortion. He still loves the person. He just hates what they are doing. As should we. Don’t twist and turn it and deny what it is.
Freely give compassion, yes.
But let’s give life a chance.
Compassion for BOTH mother AND child. Do NOT allow fear to keep you from doing the right thing now.
Shame on you and I will pray for you. God bless your family and kids
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
Thank you for sharing your message – it’s important for everyone to know that anti-women’s health activists do not have a monopoly on Christianity. It’s possible to be a Christian and be a strong supporter of reproductive health decisions, and you are the embodiment. Thank you!
Calling a pro-life activist “anti-women’s health” is completely dishonest. We are pro-life because we believe in the value of human life at EVERY stage. Unborn children are God’s creation, no less human than a newborn baby or a 100-year-old grandmother.
A Christian should care about pregnant women and the children they carry. There is no need to choose between the two.
When I went to Planned Parenthood 36 years ago for a pregnancy test and they referred to the child growing in me as a “mass of cells” and “a blob of tissue” and when they practically insisted I make an appointment for an abortion before it was too late, they were FAR from being ‘resurrection workers’. I was scared and trusted their “counseling”. I walked out with an appointment for an abortion. I thank God, literally, that my pro-choice stepmother, who was an ob-gyn nurse, was more honest with me than Planned Parenthood was: She showed me pictures of fetal development in her nursing books. I was flabbergasted. My developing son already had fingers and toes, a heart that was beating, brain waves, and all of his organs! He was no “blob of tissue”. I called and cancelled the abortion appointment and now have a beautiful, loving son (a National Merit Scholar!) and two precious grandchildren. Abortion is not an abstract concept for me: I know all too clearly what I nearly lost by “choice”.
I read many of the comments above but not all. Many support your beliefs and many do not… I will only say to you Pastor, to search your heart and pray in earnest. The people at PP have made their choice in that they support abortion… and they must live with their decision.
The God that I believe in who says that each baby if fearfully and wonderfully made, and He knows each one while in the mother’s womb….. must weep each time one of these little ones is ripped out of that womb….
We must not ever hate or abuse verbally or in any way those who have made the decision to abort their baby… God does not call us to hate but instead ‘love’.. and leave the judging to Him alone…. BUT He also calls us to protect those who cannot defend themselves and that would be the ‘baby’ . There is a film called… “The Silent Scream” … ‘THAT would be the baby who is screaming, but no one can hear except God!
There are so many parents who would love a child and so I believe that …that is the alternative… and in any way that is possible support that woman who thinks there is no other way… and to fight for the life of that little one!… Diane
It is plainly visible that you are a victim of deception! You of course, do not see this right now but I pray that you will! You have NO KNOWLEDGE NOR UNDERSTANDING OF WHO JESUS IS OR WHAT HE TEACHES – AND YOU HAVE NEVER HAD AN ENCOUNTER WITH THE RISEN LORD JESUS CHRIST! YOU ARE PREACHING ANOTHER CHRIST! A FALSE CHRIST! NOT CHRIST AS REVEALED TO US IN SCRIPTURE OR THE CHURCH ESTABLISHED BY HIM! I can only pray you will not continue in error and harm your own soul and the souls of those who have also fallen victim to deception like you have.
In truth, to roll back a stone, to remove shamefulness and barriers, in your words, as a form of resurrection; why is it that your metaphor for resurrection must trap an innocent little one to death?
Your passion for this is something to be admired. However, it is misguided. Certainly these people are doing what they believe to be right, but good intentions do not make inherently evil actions good. Indeed, even Hitler believed he was doing something good for the human race. The truth is, killing innocents should never be considered right. I’d also like to stress that many women who have abortions go on to experience depression and even suicide. Many live with the guilt of killing their child when others told them it was okay. I need to ask you, pastor, do you have any doubt that the fetus in the womb is a human being? Because if you do, even if you have the slightest doubt, no matter how small, then you could be supporting the genocide of unborn children. And this is FAR from what ought to be considered God’s work.
You are flipping insane. And any person calli b g themselves a Pastor and standing c with PP to kill is no Pastor. In fact G-d has a spevial place in hell for you.
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